Consumer Complaints and Reviews
Just received an email that from Barnes and Noble that states "Due to an error, which has been rectified, multiple authorizations may have been posted to the payment method used on this order. Any pending authorizations will be removed within several business days, depending on your bank." I called and inquired 1) how many orders were affected in the same way, 2) what caused this error (?hacking, ?stupidity, etc), and why it is up to my bank to determine how many days the authorizations remain posted. I understood the B&N person I spoke with to say that she did not know of any press release regarding the problem nor did she know how the problem occurred. Every minute that the "extra" transactions go against my account means that my credit card is limited by the amounts of each "extra" transaction. I don't think B&N can afford to have any screw-ups lest it go by the wayside like Borders! I don't plan to order online from B&N anymore.
I hope nobody is buying from this disgusting company anymore, they need to go bankrupt. I homeschool and ordered a big amount of workbooks that they shipped somewhere else. Calling customer service the guy acknowledged that they shipped it to the wrong address but told me, I can't be credited unless the items are returned? How can I return something I didn't get? DISGUSTING service, now I need to dispute with credit card. NEVER BUY FROM THEM!
My daughter is in college so we could have several books rented or purchased at one time. I tried Barnes & Noble. BIG MISTAKE. They did not contact me with info about returning the book. I did not receive an email about the due date and or access to shipping labels etc. Other companies do this. The only notification that I received was when they charged my credit card for the purchase of the book. When I called customer service there was no flexibility - I had bought the book. The charge did not go through on the credit card - I notified customer service but again no flexibility just advising me I purchased the book. Again with no notification the "account" was sent to a collection agency for the cost of the book. We rent a lot of books during the school year and I will never use Barnes & Noble again. It is not worth the trouble and negative mark on my credit.
I rented a textbook I needed for a college course thru barnesandnoble.com. I received the book by mail in terrible condition. It was falling apart literally, sections and binding of the book were coming apart. My mistake was not calling in to complain, I assumed they knew what condition they sent their books out to renters. Well, I returned the book on time by mail, and received an email a few days later of them trying to charge my card again but for the full price of the book! They accused me of ruining the book and that it was in bad condition. I spend some time over the phone with one of their CSRs who was obviously outsourced working out of another country. He assured me the issue was resolved and I would not be charged and that my credit card would also be refunded.
Little did I know he was just saying that and lied, because I received no refund and I am getting billed by a collection agency for the full price of this book that is not in my possession and worse part about it, now this is on my credit report! Do not rent from barnesandnoble.com. They send you trashy books, accuse you of destroying them, and besides charging the rental fee, attempt to bill you full price for the book after returning it, and then report you to collections. I will never do business with them again and will advise my college peers not to either. Get your textbooks elsewhere, never online, and especially not with rip off con artist like B&N!!!
I have been charged for a magazine subscription that I did not renew and had set to end for 2 months in a row by B&N. In an email, I was reassured that I wouldn't be charged for anything till 04-03-2018 if I followed all the steps to check my account, but the content of the email was clearly meaningless and meant to mislead rather than assist. As a college student, barely making minimum wage, it's quite unfortunate to see a company pull tricks through subscriptions. I used to love going to Barnes & Noble as a kid. I got most of my Harry Potter books there at the release parties but now, it's not a place I can trust, let alone a place where I can conduct business. I'm really upset about how my, and I imagine many others, situation has been managed. I won't be using B&N products and services any longer.
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They will charge you extra fees for rentals and will not refund them once you have returned the books before due date. They are really lining their pockets. They also do authorization charges and if not careful, they will tap your pockets double. All of these complaints should be reported to State General Attorney Offices so they can be sued and closed down.
While the selection of books and DVD/CD materials is excellent at B&N, their card membership is not worth the $25 a year. Here is why: When they send you a coupon for a purchase (such as 20% or 30%), when you apply it, the price of the item goes up the full retail price instead of the advertised price they have. Overall a lot of their advertised price is better than a lot of other booksellers, but when you apply your "membership coupon" you save less than you would if you just bought their advertised price. For example, I ordered the Pimsleur German Level 1-4 Unlimited (current advertised price is $420).
So to circumvent the el-switcho to full retail price (which is $451.21 full retail minus 30%), I ordered as a guest and then applied a 30% coupon and then submitted the order without signing in. The other disappointment is that you pay that "$25.00 USD" so that whenever you order online, your orders automatically get expedited shipping for free. This is a little bit deceitful because like I said, if you sign in, then they take the full retail price so that you can use the coupon and get your expedited shipping basically at your expense (since you are paying full retail.). I do not plan on renewing my membership.
I tried to order an ebook through the Barnes and Noble Nook Online site. I was using a GIFT CARD to purchase the book. I could not place the order without putting a default credit card on my account. There is NO WAY to order a NOOK book without having a valid credit card on file. If I were to go into the store and buy a hardcover book, I would be able to use my gift card WITHOUT showing them my credit card. They make no apologies and SAY they will pass the information along, but I doubt they will. They are the ONLY BUSINESS that requires you to keep a valid credit card on your account. The reason I DON'T want my card online is for SAFETY. I'm TOTALLY done with Barnes and Noble. I'll have to find a way to use my gift card by buying real books, now - or something else. I'm done with them.
I went into the store at 7026 Hwy 6, Houston, TX 77095 at around 3:40 pm on 2-10-17. I'm not much of a book reader but my youngest is in National Guard basic training and was told that we could send him books about the military. Well I thought about a book that I read back in the 80's which is called Red Storm Rising by Tom Clancy. I saw a three people working behind the counter that is located in the center of the store and I figured I would ask for help.
As I walked up I could see they were in a conversation and I didn't want to interrupt so I waited to be acknowledged and your associate named Alex asked if he could help me. I then asked about the book and he just said fiction under Clancy which would have been fine but I didn't know the layout of the store and it seemed rude how he looked at me then just made the statement about where the books would be located. The other female associate took me but made it clear where fiction was and the Clancy books were located.
Your associates seemed very rude and not wanting to help and I really hope it wasn't the color of my skin that made them act that way or they could be overworked but what really got me is your employee Alex was laughing it up with another customer at the front of the business after I made my purchase. Your store only had one book that I was looking for and I went over to Half Price Books and they were very friendly and helpful and after walking in from being upset from your store. I go to Home Depot a lot and they have an app that you can download that shows you where you can find what you're looking for in their store. Maybe you could look into the same type of system that will help your customers from speaking to rude people.
I ordered the textbook Focus on Personal Finance with Access Card from Barnes and Noble the same day as I ordered a rental textbook from Chegg. My Chegg book came 3 days earlier than my Barnes and Noble book. When my book did finally arrive it had no access card... I looked through the package and didn't find it. I called customer service and the representative explained that somewhere in the terms and conditions it states that rental textbooks are not guaranteed to come with any "extras" and that I had in fact checked the box that stated I read and agreed to the terms.
When I explained that the title of the book is extremely misleading since it actually says on my packing slip Focus on Personal Finance with Access Card, I was expecting an access card. She just repeated herself until I asked for a supervisor who repeated the same thing until I asked for a manager who then repeated the same thing. He sent me a return label and states that I won't be charged the restock fee once I return the book for a refund. We will see. Overall I don't want to do business with Barnes and Noble ever again. Their product description is misleading and their customer service is a joke.
My 10 year old daughter received a birthday gift... a board game. It is for 12 and up and a little over her head so we decided to return it. We live in a rural area and went to Walmart, Kmart, Target, some of the local toy stores. No one carried this game. Finally went to the very "uppity" Barnes and Noble in town. Yes they carried it but wouldn't accept the return for a store credit because we didn't have a receipt. Yeah it was a gift and I feel it is rude to ask the person for the receipt. Walmart, Target etc don't require a receipt. I just wanted to get her something else... I didn't want cash. They are the only store in the area that carries this... of course it was purchased there.
I called their customer service line and besides none of them being able to understand English efficiently, they also said they wouldn't take it back. I can't believe in the day and age of Amazon... where customer service is tops that this company can afford to be so tight with their policies. Seems I am not the only one who thinks this... the complaints on this board are unbelievable. The sooner Amazon comes and gobbles this company up... the better.
Called customer service multiple times due to gift cards having no value. Cards came directly from Barnes and Nobel. Each time the same story. They will send the information to "corporate" and they will be in touch in 7-10 days. 3 calls and 30 days later, same story. The individuals in customer service are unable to resolve problems.
I have 3 children in college so during any given semester we could have 15-18 books rented or purchased. I usually use Amazon but thought I would give Barnes & Noble a try. Boy was that a mistake. They did not contact me with info about returning the book. All of the other companies do this. The only notification that I was received was when they charged my credit card for the purchase of the book. They also charged double the value of the book. When I called customer service there was no flexibility - I had bought the book. As mentioned before I rent a lot of books in the course of a school year and I will not even consider Barnes & Noble in the future. It is not worth the hassle when there are so many other good companies that actually send you the shipping label as well as email reminders.
I ordered a book through B&N's Marketplace from a 3rd party. After waiting more than a month for the book to arrive, I contacted the 3rd party. They informed me that the book had been delivered weeks before. They provided a USPS tracking number. I contacted USPS, who informed me that the address on the shipment was not my address. I contacted B&N numerous times over the course of a month in the hopes of getting a refund. I was told they would look into it. A few times, I received the "but the seller said it was delivered" email. Other times I received a "we're looking into it email." Every time I contacted B&N, I asked for a confirmation email, which I never received. I was even promised a refund and was told I would receive a confirmation email of it within 72 hours. Said email never arrived.
I contacted them again today and was told that they needed to wait to hear from the 3rd party seller and for them to 1st issue B&N a credit before I would receive one. That's utterly ridiculous. What's the point of having the B&N brand for their Marketplace if they won't protect their customers and ensure quality service? Furthermore, we're talking about a whopping $14.77. The supervisor told me that they could not even issue this paltry refund sum and override this policy to make a customer happy.
Although I love my Nook when it's working, I can only say it's a great thing the $90 warranty was purchased with my purchase. I had 1 Nook that would shut down after getting extremely hot, it even had a little picture of a thermometer showing it was hot. I returned and got a refurbished one. The 2nd one I would have to performed a hard reboot all the time since it would just stop working, no reason just stopped working. I returned it and got yet another refurbished one. The 3rd one I just kept even though I had to reset this one all the time too. I figured I'd just get another refurbished one and never get back the several hours of time I wasted having to go into the stores, wait for a manager, for them to "test" it, fill out paperwork and then reset it all back up etc etc etc. I had the smaller HD tablet and my husband had the larger one.
Now the charges on all of them would break. They would no longer charge the Nook and some you could see the rubber around the part that plugged into the Nook start to separate. The store was kind enough to give us a free charger to replace the last broken on, that one never even worked at all. All in all, I can see why Barnes and Noble decided to change the company that made the Nook, but it doesn't change the fact that this household alone went through 4 Nooks, 7 or so chargers and more money than I care to count. I still have 2 Nooks that I can't use because I can't charge them. I'm disappointed that there is no one I can call and I can't get my money back or even exchange it for the new manufacturer. I'm now stuck with $599 worth of tablets I can't use. If ever a class action lawsuit comes up, I will be at the top of the line.
I recently purchased a textbook needed for school online through Barnes & Noble because it would save me over $130 versus buying from the school Barnes & Noble bookstore. I purchased expedited shipping because I needed the book quickly so I could get started on my reading assignments. The package arrived a day later than what was indicated by the expedited shipping option, but it wasn't the end of the world. Upon opening the package, however, there was a boxed set of Junie B. Jones children's books, even though the shipping order clearly indicated the intended order of the law school textbook. This had turned into a significant inconvenience because I had intended to do a great deal of reading over the weekend, so I called the customer service line immediately.
The woman who helped me with the call was polite and pleasant, but I soon became frustrated as I realized the inflexibility and complete disregard of customer service with regard to their policies. I was offered either a refund for the order or I could send back the incorrect product from a UPS store (which I would have to research where the nearest one is, obtain a return label, and find transportation to it in my busy schedule) and the textbook I was supposed to get would be sent out on the next business day and would take 1-2 days to arrive. Because this occurred on a holiday weekend, that would mean it would likely be several days until I received the correct book (six days after I was initially supposed to receive it). This was not a viable option for me because I had several hundred pages of reading assignments that I couldn't fall behind on.
As the customer service representative informed me of this, I came up with what I thought was a reasonable compromise. The bookstore on campus, where the listed price of the textbook was more expensive than it was online, was affiliated with Barnes and Noble. I inquired whether they would offer me a price match so that I could receive my textbook in a timely fashion and they would still receive payment for the textbook. This was quickly shot down by the supervisor of the customer service representative.
So, my only option then became to accept the refund and keep the book purchased the campus bookstore. This resulted in me paying an additional $130. They also continued to insist that I must mail back the incorrect item from the nearest UPS store, which for me costs additional time and money. I am disappointed that Barnes and Noble expects me, after an error on their part, to go through this inconvenience for the sake of their convenience. I will be looking for other companies to purchase my future textbooks through and I will encourage others to do the same to avoid these headaches that I have experienced.
I was late returning a book. Charged an extension fee and overcharged for the book. The book was valued at way less than what they charged. This was my mistake however my issue is that the customer service sucks and they are not friendly at all. They have this "it is what it is" attitude when customers have these issues. They are not kind and understanding like Chegg and other places. All they care about is money and they make that clear. Never again. They don't care about students at all.
I was so proud I had my receipt & the item was pristine in appearance. There should have been no issue. I received a record album at Christmas. Purchased at B&N. Main St. At Exton, sadly it skipped badly & I simply wanted an exchange for the same item or an equal item. The store did not have the same item which was a bummer but with 1000 plus records on hand I could easily get something else of equal value. That was where they got all robotic. Since my wife used a discount coupon they would only credit me the amount I spent not the item price towards a equal product. I bought a $34.99 record & wanted another $34.99 record by the same group or another group for perhaps a few dollars more.
The store manager didn't come close to seeing my point. ** was her name by the way. She insisted she had no override in her computer & it would throw off her count. Why should I have to take a lesser product when I had a receipt & a perfect, clean return. The phone call center for B&H defers completely to the store manager so why do they even exist in having one. It could have been smooth, quick & I probably would have bought another record or at least a more expensive one. Great customer care Barnes & Noble!!!
All I wanted to do was purchase a few ebooks with the Gift Card I recently received. I created an account for that purpose that includes privacy data that I know from experience they will use to send me UNWANTED advertisements to clutter my email & cell phone - fine I'll live with that temporarily; entered the card# and pin; put the ebooks into the shopping cart. Upon checkout, another pop-up that required me to enter credit card info. Why do they also need my credit card when my total purchases did not exceed the gift card amount?? I can understand if the total was more than the gift card. All I wanted was to use my gift card, they can KEEP the .32 cents balance! I'll never ever use them online again for books and never buy THEIR gift cards for someone else's use because they will have to go through the same **!
Terrible experience with Barnes and Noble book rental service. Rented 3 textbooks for college. Price seemed fair. I couldn't have been more wrong. I received the books in used condition with some writing/highlighting in them and I didn't think too much on it. College quarter was ending and I mailed them back on time. Received an email from Barnes and Noble stating that the books have been returned and a second email stating they want to charge my credit card for a rental buyout/extension. I never wanted to buy the books and have already prepaid to rent them for 90 days.
I call customer service and ask what's the deal. They verified that they received the books but they are in "bad condition" so now I have to buy them. I answer that I sent them back in the same condition that they were mailed to me. They say that I have to notify them of the "bad condition" within 21 days of receiving the books and it's "in their policy". So now they are trying to charge me $263 to buyout the books when I already paid near $90 to rent them. What is even more disgusting is that they are trying to charge me near the new condition price range for each book when they mailed me a used condition books to begin with.
For example: 1 book I rented called Imperialism in the Modern World: Sources and Interpretations edition 1 sells for $94 new, $57.45 used, and $15.27 marketplace but they want to charge me $82 for it. It's in "bad condition" and yet I'm not even being charged at used price range. They should be well aware of the condition they send out their books to people.
Second book I rented: Patterns for College Writing, Brief Edition: A Rhetorical Reader and Guide Edition 13 sells for $53.87 new, $29.62 used, and $25.80 on marketplace but they want to charge me $46.02. Third book I rented: Traditions and Encounters Volume C: from 1750 to Present Edition 5 sells for $161 new, $79.38 used, and $22.84 on marketplace but they want to charge me $134.31.
This whole system reeks of extortion and is a way for Barnes and Noble to forcefully sell off their old, used and unwanted junk to unwilling customers and use the funds to buy brand new products. Now I'm the fool for not reading through their entire ** "policy" and allow them to exploit me for not doing so. Never, ever, ever shopping there again in my entire existence and warning all friends and family about my awful experience. I'm just in shock that this is legal.
Even though I've been a customer for over 20 years, I won't shop at Barnes & Noble anymore. They refused to take back rejected Christmas gifts in perfect condition with gift receipts because "the price tag had been removed." Doesn't everyone remove the price tag before they give their gift? Cashier Joel ** said they don't generate the price tag at the store -- it is done at the corporate office -- so they can't take back the item (Store 2995). If you have a gift card, better use it quick -- this company will not be in business long.
I received at textbook back in September. I did not notice that the spine was damaged until a month into my rental. I did not think anything of it, except for B&N has ** textbooks for rentals. No other problems with the textbook, so why do I care that there is damage on the spine. I recently returned the book and got an email that I'm being charged for the full price of the book because it was damaged. I used the chat feature since I wasn't able to call right away. It was difficult to get the person to understand the situation and then trying to get some sort of resolution. Never got a resolution, just too frustrating to deal with right now. Do not use the chat feature. Plus, the person's name I was talking with was "Bong **" which I thought was unprofessional. That may be his real name, but I do not think B&N would want that as their first impression with customer service.
They accused me that my order for a Minecraft hardcover book for my son for Christmas didn't pass their verification and that they will refund it. They didn't tell me anything until almost Christmas. These guys are totally unprofessional and insulting. I will buy my books from Amazon from now on.
Barnes and Noble, Ventura Store has a Hispanic security that stalk on Hispanics customers. When confronted by customers, the security immediately overreact, challenging Barnes and Noble Customers to complain with the manager. When the manager arrived, he openly accepted that he instruct his Hispanic Security to harass Hispanic customers, which make sense because if the case reaches the court, he can argue against any allegation of discrimination, or racism since the Barnes and Noble security is Hispanic. What struck me the most was that other Barnes and Noble employees were congratulating the Hispanic security for "doing a good job." It seems that it is the policy implemented by the manager and that every employee is being instructed on this type of stalking, or harassment by profiling Hispanics. In conclusion, if you want to avoid problems, avoid Barnes and Noble, Ventura, California, if you are Hispanic.
I recently returned 3 books and received an email that Barnes and Noble is trying to charge me for one of the books. I made my first phone call to customer service and the person was no help, he claimed he was going to transfer me to a management team and lied and just disconnected my call. I called again and spoke to a lady who said she was going to transfer my call to a management team, I waited on the phone for 10 minutes and the call just went blank. I made a third call and the lady told me that the reason Barnes and Noble is trying to charge me for a book is because that the book was returned in bad condition. I then asked to speak to a manager because that was absolutely false. She transferred me to a management team member whose name is "Sean". He refused to give me his last name.
I told him that I returned the book how I received it, the book had a few highlighted pages and a little worn (which is expected for a USED BOOK). I did not consider it in bad condition because if I did I would have sent it back as soon as I received it in the mail. I am not going to be charged for a book I sent back in the same condition I received it. If the book was in such bad condition then why did Barnes and Noble send it out that way. His customer service was awful, Sean started off very nice at first, but then he became very rude. I feel this is unacceptable because someone wasn't doing their job when they sent out the book, because if so you all would have never sent out a book that is considered "bad condition".
NEVER RENT FROM BARNES & NOBLE. I have never had such a horrible experience with renting a textbook before. I've used Chegg & Amazon and have had zero issues. This is the first time that I have rented from Barnes & Noble, I returned the book and received a confirmation email. Months go by and I receive an email from a collections agency that the textbook was never returned. I contacted Barnes & Noble and they said that the book was returned but it was in poor condition so therefore I had been charged a buyout fee. I never received any emails from Barnes & Noble concerning this. Customer service was very unhelpful on the phone and insisted they could not reverse the charges and even noted that Barnes & Noble had never sent me the "courtesy" email. They insisted there was nothing that they could do and the "system" would not allow them to waive the fee. A $12 rental ended up costing me $104.
RENTERS BEWARE: IF YOU DON'T CONTACT BARNES & NOBLE WITHIN 21 DAYS OF RECEIVING THE BOOK TO NOTIFY THEM IF THERE IS ANY highlighting or underlining in the book, you will be charged the full cost of the book, as they consider this to be "damaged" and in "poor condition". Receiving a book that has highlighting and underlining is NORMAL in a used book. I will never shop at Barnes & Noble again or recommend anyone to use their services. Poor business practices and uncaring customer service.
I went into a Barnes and Noble store to buy gift cards for family members. I looked for a gift card that stated Merry Christmas. However, the clerk stated that those words might offend someone so they don't have them. Alright, maybe except right next to Happy Holiday cards were lots of cards with Happy Hanukkah on them. Perhaps the Barnes and Noble is not aware that Hanukkah is also a religious holiday! You would think with all the books they sell, they would realize that!!
A few months ago I discovered that my bank account had been charged nearly $400 through Barnes & Noble's website. I called Barnes & Noble to dispute the charges because I had not purchased anything through their website in months and the card that was on my online account was my CREDIT CARD not my bank card. They refused to help - the first person I spoke to told me it was my problem and they couldn't help me; the second person hung up on me. After 5 weeks of battling with them my bank refunded me the money and was going to take up the problem with B&N directly. In the meantime I had discovered that my credit card was being charged for a membership that I had never renewed. I called to dispute that and was told that I was not going to obtain a refund but they'd "happily" cancel the membership. This was over 6 months ago and I am STILL being charged a monthly fee and a fee for a membership.
I called again today to cancel the membership and was told that I would receive a confirmation email and the highest amount they could refund me was $25. I have not received the email yet and I'm still being charged a separate monthly fee so the first person I spoke to couldn't help with the fee so she transferred me to someone else who said they didn't see any transactions other than the membership fee and they had no way of looking up a charge with the card number that was being charged. He said all he knew was that according to my email address there's no other charges. I was told to keep calling and trying and I may eventually get someone who knows. This is ridiculous!
Don't rent textbooks from them. They don't even allow you to keep it long enough to get through a full Qtr. They charge another $14.33 for an 15 extra days, which still isn't enough time to get you through the end of the Qtr. So in dealing with them, you may as well purchase your textbook. I was just told that Amazon and other companies are better and there's no extra charge if you need an extension. Therefore, I will never rent with B&N again.
I received another 15% off coupon for anything on B&N.com. Used said coupon to order one book and one movie. Order placed on the 12th of November and the website said I would receive on the 17th. That day came, no order. I placed an phone call to customer service (a term I use lightly) and was connected with an employee I could barely understand who told me to "kindly wait until the end of the next day". Well, no order on the 18th. The UPS tracking now says the 21st. NINE days after the order was placed. I contacted B&N again and was given the same textbook apology, but no offer of anything other than "be patient". I expressed a desire to cancel my order as NINE days is ridiculous and was told it was impossible as the order is in transit. I asked for a supervisor, same story. Then I asked for that supervisor's supervisor. You can guess the rest of it.
After speaking with 4 employees, 3 of them "supervisors on the management team," all of whom did nothing besides quote company rhetoric, I'm in the same boat I was in yesterday. I can either suck it up and wait or I can suck it up and wait THEN send the order back to them because apparently they cannot communicate with UPS because it's a Friday. In 2016 one conglomerate is unable to communicate with another for 3 days. Unreal. Simply unreal. But wait, B&N will send me a label that I can use to return the package to them once I receive it on... you guess it MONDAY the 21st. I'm not an unreasonable person and I understand mistakes happen: we're human. But when you have a problem as a retailer and it's on your end, it's not the greatest PR to tell your customers there's squat you can do, suck it up and wait, then if you're still annoyed send it back to us because our policies allow for nothing else.
TLDR version of this: I will NEVER, EVER, EVER order from B&N.com again. No compensation, unbelievable inability to address a problem short of waiting 3 additional days, snotty "supervisors" who tell me they've "offered me a solution" and it's my fault that I'm unwilling to accept it, complete misrepresentations on delivery times, a surreal experience that has left a rancid taste in my mouth and still no order. I could've (and most definitely should have) ordered my items from Amazon.com and had them in 2 days. Sorry B&N, but $2.54 off one item isn't remotely worth this headache.
I've shopped at B&N for 30+ years and never had an issue; frankly it's incredibly rare to have an issue like this with any retailer but to be literally unwilling or unable to fix a problem until NINE days have passed is mind-boggling. Never again B&N, never again. Order from Amazon.com ladies and gentlemen. Better prices, better customer service and no employees telling you it's too bad you don't like it, but oh well.
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