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Every month for 2 yrs we had to call because of being overcharged. We always paid the amount due but continually complained and requested service checks and reasoning for the high bills. Then we finally received relief when someone actually took the initiative to look into the billing issues and received 3 months without having to pay a bill but still not close to what we overpaid. We were just happy that it was going to be over, FINALLY. WRONG, Happy Thanksgiving, we are going to see if you notice we increased your bill again.
Excuse after excuse but this time I refused to pay the overcharged bills and only paid the max as to what we should be charged. We are 2 people that live in the home and we have a hot water heater that is gas and a gas stove. NEVER, EVER use the gas stove because we cook our food in a crockpot, on an outdoor grill, on an electric griddle or our Foreman grill. We live in Florida, so we never want to turn on the stove and make it hot in the house. We have tried so many times calling them since they never respond to our letters and we can’t get any higher than an Admin Manager.
Looking for a way to contact anyone in a corporate position to look into these problems because we aren’t the only one in the neighborhood complaining about this issue. We are now looking to remove the gas water heater and stove because I don’t work for AmeriGas and I shouldn’t have to be thinking about them 24hrs a day. Too much time of my life given to this company because they can’t do their job.
My father has a vacation home in MI, where he uses AmeriGas. We have been with them for years without issue. Now, all of the sudden, they are charging us a rental fee of almost $150 for NOT USING GAS THAT WE ALREADY PAID FOR. When we contacted them about it, they told us we signed Terms & Conditions agreeing to this fee. Upon reviewing the Terms & Conditions, we found no indication of what the fee would be, so they can essentially change the fee to whatever they want anytime they want. We feel that the Terms & Conditions should be clear & transparent & should indicated EXACTLY what we will be charged. At the very least it should indicate that the fee will be no more than $X.XX, so the customer is aware of all the fees going in.
We spend between $500-$700 annually on propane from AmeriGas, yet they want to charge us for something we already paid for, because we didn't use as much as they wanted us to. We already explained that this is a vacation home, so we will never use that much. Furthermore, we have never used that much & were never charged before. They could not explain why that was, nor could they explain how they come up with the amount of this fee. So we essentially never know what they will charge us. We have contacted the BBB & the case was closed, with a note that we are still not satisfied. However, we feel that their practices/Terms & Conditions are unfair to customers (especially loyal customers who have been with them for years).
They are essentially withholding info/lying/misleading customers. And they refuse to take responsibility for it. How can this be legal? And if you want to cancel or change to a smaller tank to avoid this tank rental fee, they want to charge you as well. This is unacceptable & we feel they should be forced to edit their Terms & Conditions to list all fees, including the amount, so that customers know what they are getting into. We also strongly feel that a business should not be charging customers fees for not using something for which they already paid. It is amazing that they have been allowed to conduct business in this manner for this long.
AmeriGas is not dependable. I was low on gas and called the company. I was told that I would have a delivery soon. I was lower and called again and was told by Vicki not to worry they would not let me run out. I called the next day and AmeriGas stopped answering the phones. They would not answer the emergency number either. I was lucky and got another company to rush out with two tanks. When I signed up with AmeriGas I told them to put me on auto fill. I soon found out what "AUTO FILL" meant. The company goes on something they call "degree heating days". This is a temperature that is picked and below that temperature, you are using heat. This is the problem with this, the company has no Idea what they are talking about and this is why so many people run out of gas.
I called the company once and ask about the degree heating days. I ask them how they knew how much gas I would use and they gave me the degree heating days crap. I ask them how many buildings I heated now, they said that they did not know. I asked them what the Thermal Resistance or "R" value of the buildings were. Had no idea what I was talking about. I asked how they could determine how much gas I was using without the figures to back it up. All I was told that they go on degree heating days. I would love for AmeriGas to get their best genius to give an answer as to how AmeriGas can figure your consumption without the mentioned figures. So, look out if you are on autofill because you will get shafted sooner or later with a big emergency fill bill. I will also add that there are other factors to add to calculating your usage.
I had moved into Hemlock Farms over a year ago and was told my propane (AmeriGas) would be $1.76 a gallon. I was running low on propane come November of last year and the truck pulled in pumped my propane with two cars sitting in the driveway not knocking on the door and took off leaving the receipt sitting on my doorstep. I read the ticket and without warning me jacked my price up to $2.67 a gallon. I was left holding a $980 bill. I then removed them from my services and have 40% left in the tank when I was informed that I would have to pay the full amount and receive no credit back for the 40% left in the tank. They would resell that portion of it to someone else.
This place is a true rip off and will in every way take advantage of you in the middle of the winter. I am not afraid to show my name and number if someone would like to file a class action suit against this company for all of their wrong doing that they are getting away with. Please feel free to email me if there other people out there just like me going through this.
Been with this Company almost 2 years. Have always paid timely. Recently experienced financial difficulty during 20 deg weather and was treated like trash. Explained to “Amy” my situation, just had a newborn. Was told to take my baby to a neighbor's house. “There must be at least one person in your family that has a job that can help you”. When I ran out of gas and called to report a potential gas leak, I was charged over $100 more dollars. Deliveries are never on time. Wait time over an hour just to speak with a rep. Amy has placed me on hold several times and never returned when I have asked for corporate's number or a local supervisor's contact info. Left messages with Amy for a supervisor to return call to no avail. They leave you on hold when they know you have no alternatives for heat. This should be illegal.
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After 45 years of renting a tank from AmeriGas through all the name changes I decided to purchase the tank after being charged almost one dollar more per gallon than my neighbors who used other companies. I discussed the purchase with my local office and my desire to have the tank leak tested before buying it. I was told that their employees that delivered the gas checked the tank every time it was filled. The first time that another company tested it after the purchase it leaked from almost every gauge on the tank. I personally watched the other company test it. I was discouraged to say the least. Now I am waiting for a technician to come and replace all the gauges so I can get propane. My tank was red tagged. So much for their drivers checking the tank every fill. I feel that the company was very dishonest with a 45 year customer.
First of all, their prices are absolutely insane. We were taking a 5 Gallon Tank and filling it at U-Haul down the street for less per gallon then they wanted to charge us at purchasing 200 gallons at a time. We shopped other propane companies in our area and called them asking if they would at least come close to the other company's prices. They would say they were going to get a discount amount and call me back. Never receive a call. Called to have the tank picked up, asked if there were any fees. No, no fees. Took them over two months to pick our tank up. Then a month later, I receive an envelope from them. Thinking it was junk mail, because we had been with another company now for almost three months. Receive a second letter, open it, it is a statement saying we owe over $100 (now late fees of $38 p/m are being tacked on).
I call them, explain that I was told there was no pick up fee, could they send me a copy of the contract we signed showing there was a fee. She agrees to send to me and call me back to let me know it has been sent. Receive nothing that day. Call the following day, she tells me she is not at the office where my contract is located until the following week. I follow up the following week with her, she says she will send the contract and follow up with a phone call. Never receive anything. Get a call from a call center representative last week, explain to her the history. She tells me that she will note my account that if we call in and pay the initial pick up fee they will wave the late fees. Today, I call in to pay the bill, I get the very first girl I spoke with, who never followed up. Of course she's going to say there are no notes from this other agent.
I paid the bill including the late fees. After paying the bill I requested the number for the corporate office. I wanted to get to the bottom of why the notes were not put on my account as promised last week. The customer service number (800 number) told me there WERE notes on the account but that the name had been changed when this girl pulled it up today. WTH?? Then wouldn't say anymore, said I needed to talk to the District Manager in my area. This is a very shady, unprofessional company. They are all about the money grab and nothing about service. THEIR HOLD MESSAGE SAYS: "CUSTOMER SERVICE & SAFETY ARE OUR #1 PRIORITY". THIS IS ABSOLUTELY LAUGHABLE.
They are just horrible in regards to reliability. We have "automatic" delivery which is never automatic. Frequently end up running out of gas (and we aren't using up at a high rate. They just don't come) so end up calling for emergency delivery when we realize that we have run out and then they charge additional fees even though we have paid up on time and should have received our delivery earlier. They know they have you over a barrel because technically they own the tank even if it is buried on your property. Well today we have had it and are going to pay to have this tank dug up and a new one installed from a more reliable company. If I ever move, I will not even consider buying a house with AmeriGas as the contract even if it is my dream house. They are that bad.
I have been a propane consumer for over 30 years and cannot believe the outrageous pricing, rude and unreliable service and total disregard for customer service and satisfaction of Amerigas. Unfortunately for me the family run energy supplier in my area was bought by Amerigas. Immediately I was charged $258.00 rent on the company owned tank because I did not meet the minimum gas usage. When I asked to purchase the 30 year old tank so I would not have to rent I was told the tank would have to be replaced and I would be required to purchase a new tank due to safety reasons??? If I continue to rent the tank there is no issue for Amerigas to continue to use it.
I inquired about having the tank removed. I was informed that I cannot receive any type of credit for propane left but will have to pay an exorbitant price to have propane disposed of as hazardous waste. On top of the tank rental charges I do not meet the minimum propane usage so my average cost per gallon $4.85 per gallon. (I have propane service at another home and pay $2.75 at peak times). TO ANYONE READING THIS LOOK ANYWHERE BUT AMERIGAS FOR YOUR PROPANE SERVICE. I can't empty my tank fast enough to change service.
Called for a delivery when our tank was between 30 and 35%. They said it would be 7-10 days and on their website, our delivery was slated for between the 1st and 9th of March (we called on the 1st). It is now the 15th and we still have not received a delivery. Called them yesterday to see what was going on and they said we weren't on the delivery schedule and that it would be another 7-12 days before we got gas (we're now at less than 5% gas). I live with my mom, who is 75 and not in the best health, and it is our cold, rainy season. But we can't use the heat because we were afraid of running out of propane. No one seems to be helpful, and in fact, the girl we talked to yesterday was rude. I sent an email but still no response. We're ready to switch companies.
Unless you have an emergency, you cannot schedule a delivery for a certain day! You just tell them to come and they come whenever they want. VERY inconvenient if you want to be around for the delivery.
We went with another company in Oct. 2017. (G&B) G&B faxed AmeriGas and we called them to let them know that we were changing companies. They sent us a bill for a $50 rental fee, which we did not pay, of course. Then every month they would send us another bill with a late fee on it. Then they sent us to collections for not paying. Meanwhile, we called them every month to tell them we no longer have service with them and EVERY single time we called, they said "they didn't know we wanted to close the account"! We even went in there in Feb and called.
So, I finally sent a copy of G&B's fax, plus a letter telling them that we do not owe them anything and to come and pick up their tank or I would contact Hazmat. I sent this to the local AmeriGas (Mt. Airy) and to their company in Pa. and to the collection agency. They came and picked up the tank and I haven't received any more bills for that. Now they are sending us a $60 bill for picking up the tank! We will never use them again. They are very dishonest. I have been told that there are tanks all over the place that they refuse to pick up. I would not recommend them to anyone.
Sadly, I allowed Amerigas to gouge me for years because I rented a tank from them. Finally a few years ago I had enough when their lock-in price contract came and it was for $1:50/gallon more than market price ($3.89/gal). I bought the tank from them (for $400.00 after 25 years) and made it back on my first fillup with my new company.
BUYER BEWARE!!! They lure you in with their low introductory prices... however, after the contract expires, LOOKOUT! Their prices almost doubled! Their TV commercial says, "We treat you like family." All I can say is "thank goodness, I'm not in your family!" I gave them a rating of 1 star, and that was WAY TOO GENEROUS!!! My grandmother would say "They're a wolf in sheep's clothing!"
I requested a STOP in delivery since we were in the middle of moving away. They came and filled it anyway, $500 to fill from 40% on the gauge. Then almost did it again 30 days later, but I talked to the guy at my house and he politely drove away. So then we moved, with 50% full mark on the gauge, 500 gallon tank was removed from the site for the new owner to go with a different company. The local AmeriGas rep, said this was no problem and would send a check or a bill to settle the account.
The check came, a whopping $165 I say facetiously. They said they took out the fees and such and that was the balance. They did not send a closing statement to show the breakdown of what was left in the tank, the fees they took out, and how they arrived at the total. What can I even dispute without proof? I was expecting a fair rate for the gas not used. Over the past year, we feel duped, since we just noticed they were charging us double the going rate a year earlier, $4.50/gal and gave us a break once we brought it to their attention. This is what happened when a corporation took over our local Community Propane distributor.
I was charged $179.00 for tank rental. I didn't pay it on time so they came and put a lock on my tank. I called and paid while the tech was here and they charged me another $100 to take it back off. The reason they gave me was because it was time consuming for him to take the lock off. It took him 3 minutes at the most. The employees at the Wooster Ohio office were very rude and didn't want to work with me as far as not charging me the extra $100. I am so sorry I switched to this company.
I changed to a new propane company after 14 years. My office is not on SPUG. They just switched this month. I was paying more than any other propane company. Now after 40 days the empty 500 gallon tank is still sitting in my driveway. The staff, at the Royal Oaks office has been very rude, in trying to get a date to pick up their tank.
I've used Amerigas for two years now. I'm always hearing I should try this company or that, but I will never switch. The service we receive is unmatched! One time the driver went out of his way to make sure we got our heat before Christmas. Once we had a leak, they were here in an hour. Another time the delivery driver stayed almost an hour to make sure he got my hot water heater lit for me and my kids. Many times I've had to call to ask if something is possible, and even though according to policy, it wasn't, they still accommodated me! From help with billing to deliveries, Cassie remembers me every time I call. Once she even called me back after going above and beyond by asking her manager if she can help me with a delivery we needed ASAP. I will never change companies & am lucky I chose them!
This is my third winter living in an insulated apartment that is less than 900 sq ft. I just received a bill for a propane delivery that was almost $700 @ $4.27/gaI. I only use it for heat. I keep my thermostat at 60 degrees for a good 75% of the time. Prior to the most recent bill, I got a bill November or December and they charged me $4.59 a gallon. Fortunately it was a relatively small refill. At this time last year, I paid $2.69/gal in January and $1.96 in February. I hadn't locked in the last two winters because the bill was manageable. I am furious.
I called the manager who finally offered me a $25 voucher. Are you kidding me? I explained that I live alone in a small place and could not possibly pay the bill. "We can put you on a payment program," he said. I'm a nurse and like everyone else, I work hard for my money. I get it... Businesses have the right to make money... But to GOUGE the consumer, is totally unethical and immoral. They simply do not care. They will pick up the tanks for $59.99 and charge a .35 "restocking fee." And they know no one is going to do that in the dead of winter. This needs to stop.
Have had Amerigas for 20 yrs. No issues. This year we ordered propane tank refill 3 weeks ago-no show and reason per representative at Amerigas it was “rejected,” but did not know why-no documentation. We rescheduled for the following week. No show again. Called rep and rescheduled. Driver calls and discuss time frame. I was home for time discussed. Driver came 2 hrs later and did not “light the pilot, which is what my presence was needed for.” Left note in door and left-I was home waiting for him to come in the house, Amerigas rep stated all issues were not their fault. Disappointed by customer service.
First of all, I've never had to use this propane crap before because I've always lived in a house with central air. Since moving to this small town where everything is PRIMITIVE, the worst part of it all is getting gas from AmeriGas! I spent almost $400 on 100 gallons of gas 2 weeks ago and never imagined it would run out already! I ordered 200 gallons on Monday and today (Wednesday) I called to see if the truck is coming to our area today and they said it wasn't coming til next week!.So we have NO HEAT all this time when it's in the 20's out!
The problem with this propane business, besides the fact that they're a rip off is that, they got you by the balls because you're at their mercy. There is no sense of urgency, especially to the people who have no heat!!! There is ONE person named Nancy in the Emporia, Va. office that went above and beyond for me before but she is not assigned to my region. I wish there could be a Nancy at every office because for the most part, these "customer service" ladies could care less that you and your kids are sitting in a house with no heat for over a week in 20 degree weather!
I was a single mother struggling to pay my bills for years, taking money out of retirement and almost had to move because the propane was so expensive. I did not know propane is not regulated like other utilities and they could charge whatever they wanted to. Come to find out I was paying over $4.50 a gallon when the going rate was less than $2.00 per gallon with competitors. I called Amerigas to tell them their tank was dug up and they could come get it. They said they had 10 days to pick it up. Thirty one days later and now the excuse is they need to pump some gas out because it is at 10%. They do not care if they lose customers because they are making so much off the ones they have. I would never recommend this company! I believe they are taking advantage of the elderly and poor that think they have to pay whatever price Amerigas bills them.
Bought a poor condition AmeriGas five gallon LP tank from the machine in front of Sam's Club on Dale Mabry north Tampa. I had never used an exchange program and now I know why, at least from AmeriGas. I was not about to trade in my new premium grade tank so I bought their tank with gas included. You cannot see the tank you get, otherwise I would have passed. The tank was greasy and filthy, which is only a nuisance and probably typical of their outfit. The tank however had prominent rust around the weld area where the valve entered the tank. I would consider this a safety problem. The fill port was fouled and filthy. Fortunately I noticed it and cleaned it. So while I was at it, I washed the tank, which caused me to look at the bottom where there was heavy rust on the tank bottom inside the circular stand.
Forty years ago, I owned a business with a major propane tank to supply our own equipment, but also sometimes sold to the public. I would have refused to refill this tank due to the safety/rust issue. As an additional thought, the type of scum who brought in tanks that looked like this were obvious lowlifes who might well have been featured on an episode of "Cops." I can only speculate what AmeriGas ownership and management would look like in person. The machine refused to give a credit card receipt.
I purchased a spec house where the builder had installed an Amerigas 500 gallon in ground propane tank. To get it filled I had to agree to the Terms and Conditions of the contract the builder had signed. The builder agreed to those terms so he would not have to pay any money for the tank, leaving me on the hook to "rent" the tank from Amerigas. The first year I went in and signed the paperwork and everything went relatively smooth, they filled it regularly and the billing was accurate.
As soon as the one year renewal came around I noticed my rate had gone up 100% year to year. I called and asked what was going on and basically they said since I had not called and "locked in" for the year I was getting market pricing. It's very easy to look up the wholesale and delivered propane average cost on the government's website. They were charging me double what they should. After arguing I got it lowered to about 25% more than I should have been paying but let it go. I use 1000-1500 gallons per year so pricing is very important.
Each year the same thing would happen, they would double my bill, I would threaten to leave and pull the tank out of the ground, etc. etc. etc. It became a huge aggravation and they kept giving me worse and worse pricing. I would call around and tell people I owned my tank and would get quoted a price 60% below what Amerigas wanted. Finally I had enough and decided I was done after 11 years. I called Amerigas and offered to buy the tank from them (a 14 year old tank by this point as the house was empty for 3 years). They would not sell it to me which is just dumb as they would have to refurbish it to reuse it.
For reference the wholesale gas price I would find to be about $1 per gallon most of the time for the US average in my area. The delivered average price was $1.90 to $2.50 per gallon. Every year they would try and jack me up to $4.50 or even $5.00 per gallon. I would buy 300-400 gallons at a time so they were trying to profit roughly $900 of one fill up on me. I get they need to recoup tank rental fees but charge me 10 cent extra per gallon, not $2.75
When Amerigas would not sell the tank to me and I had enough I called another local company. For $150 they agreed to dig up the Amerigas tank and install one of their own. In their contract it says if I am ever unhappy I can buy the tank for $1500. That was the best decision I have ever made. For 2 years now my cost per gallon has been around $1.90 and I don't have to play the complain/threaten to quit game every year to get a price that even after adjust was still way too high. There are 60 houses in my neighborhood and all were originally on Amerigas. At least 20 of us have dug them up and replaced them and that is absolutely been the best decision I could have made. I would not in no way, shape or form EVER recommend someone signing up for a in ground Amerigas tank, it is against the law for someone else to refill their tank so they hold all the cards and leverage. They will take advantage of that leverage and continue to raise the pricing.
AmeriGas in Spartanburg, SC never knew or ever exhibited the truth. These are a fine-tuned group of scam artists designed to hook you with the notion of low pricing only to find other charges to ramp the price back up. I had to call them every year and threaten to leave in order to get "contract" pricing. This year I had enough. I disconnected their tank in Aug 2017, and told them to come get it. At the time, it had 40% in the tank. Then, in the first part of Dec 2017, they sent me a bill for a full tank fill-up at gouging pricing. The problem was the tank was disconnected, and it is against the law in the state of SC to fill a disconnected tank. They billed me $420 and expected me to pay it. When I went outside to check, the tank was still 40% filled.
I reported this to a regional office, and they told me the manager of the Spartanburg office would be giving me a call. Did I hear something... Absolutely not. Came home from work and the sneaks had come and got their tank. Then, I received a settlement a week later and they screwed me out of my 40%. Claimed they had what is called a "pump out restocking charge of $149" so there went my refund. I am obtaining a lawyer and have contacted the local TV station to air my story. They thought it was awful as well, and I have pictures and the bills to prove they are snakes in the grass. Take my advice, leave these cheats alone. It is better to pay a little more than to be sucked in by this group of bandits.
I was a customer for over 17 years and had a great delivery person, Ted, for years. He would call the day before coming and I would clear out the bush that grows over our propane tank, this worked great for many years. Got a new driver and she did nothing but complain, had to back her truck up a long ways, refused to call me and let me know the day before she was coming to deliver gas, had to pull the gas hose a long ways. So the bush was overgrow on the tank and she started red tagging me. So, cleaned out the bush and she walks up and Red tags my tank. Says I need a new one and said they would call me sometime and put a new tank in, right at Christmas time. Did not care that I had people coming in and might then be without Gas for the holidays.
Called Pacific Coast Propane, they were extremely helpful, came right over, going to install a new bigger cheaper tank with Wi Fi, transferring the gas from the old tank to the new tank and used a crane to install it very nicely. None of which AmeriGas even offered to do for me. Easy call, switched to PCP. When I called to cancel AmeriGas service the person on the other end could care less why I am switching. I have been doing customer support for 25 years and I know bad support when I see it and this is really bad.
I am a customer and I stopped at their office to check on the price as I was getting low. I did not like the fact that the receptionist would not tell me a price until after she looked at my account. After I was told a price I told her that I would think about it and left. 2 days later as I returned home from work I noticed that a truck with dual wheels had backed up my driveway. We had a fresh snow that day so these were the only tracks in my driveway. I assumed that it was UPS or FedEx but as I followed the driver's footsteps in the snow, I see that they walked back to the propane tank.
Apparently the receptionist told one of the drivers to stop and check on my tank. The problem with that is the driver walked up to my garage window and apparently snooped at what was in my garage. Then he proceeded to the tank walked over to the corner of my garage which is 20 feet away from the tank. Actually cleared snow off the data plate on the tank then walked all the way around my house to the regulator instead of walking straight to it from the tank which it's located on the corner of my house closest to the tank. Needless to say I have a new propane company now (less than a week later). So AmeriGas will never set foot on my property again.
I am a renter on a shared property. The property came with an AmeriGas tank, I have been paying rental fees and buying my propane upfront. I recently called and told AmeriGas I would be moving soon but the tank was low. I was told I had to purchase the minimum amount, which cost me over $300. There is still 75% propane left in the tank and Amerigas is refusing to refund me for the propane still in the tank.
I rented a home in Winter Park, Florida which had an Amerigas propane tank on the property. If I had known what a stressed out person I would become just from this company, I would NOT have rented this house. First I had to open a new account with them, even though I was the tenant, so an extra $400.00 on top of my moving expenses and rent/security deposit. Then I get a bill for the yearly tank rental, which I forwarded to my landlord, who didn't like having to pay for this, and never told me. As I was preparing to move out, I thought I noticed a possible gas leak, so I called, and they sent someone out right away, the tech guy said my tank is "unserviceable", first of all because my landlord didn't keep the area around the tank clean of any plants or debris. Then he said the tank was unloved due to the settling of the back of the house.
So, after he left, I felt grateful that I was at least safe, so then I get a bill for that service for $60.00, which after complaining, I went ahead and paid it. Then I called to close my account and set up a day and time for them to come out and read my tank (I had 36 gallons left, wanted my money back), they said changes were made in the company, and they don't issue refunds on unused gas. WHAT??? I had to call almost one dozen times to remind them to turn the tank off, and to make sure my account was closed. Well, I had already moved when someone came out and shut the tank off. Then I get another bill, they still have my email address and cell phone number, saying I owed $60.00 for them to turn it off. I finally called and said, "No way. You guys are criminal in the way you treat your customers, I'm not paying another dime to you." They keep calling me. What a HORRIBLE company!!
Got two big tanks installed and converted house heat from electric to propane, AmeriGas gas was suppose to fill both tanks and only filled one tank so we ran out of propane with temps in the teens and was unable to heat house, called AmeriGas a week earlier to fill tanks. They said they would be filled and a week later still no propane! Called again and the rude woman/girl said they will fill tanks when they can get to the area! WTH... Have no propane and no heat with temps in low teens and they say they will get there when a truck is the area!! Would not recommend using Greensburg AmeriGas, have Somerset AmeriGas for camp and they seem to be spot on!!
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