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By Mark Huffman
ConsumerAffairs.com
September 28, 2008
After all the negotiation and heated rhetoric behind closed doors,
Congressional leaders have signed off on a version of legislation to
allow the government to buy distressed mortgage securities.
Wall Street analysts say the action was necessary to keep U.S. credit
markets from seizing up and global financial markets from collapsing,
perhaps as early as Monday morning.
Not all consumers are happy with the plan. One, Ivan Fail of Sparta, Mo., is trying to organize a massive class-action lawsuit against the financial services firms involved in the bailout.
The plan contains many of the elements originally proposed by Treasury
Secretary Henry Paulson and Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke. Congress added
provisions to make it politically palatable, since the plan drew
strong opposition from the public.
Among the provisions, the plan establishes a government entity to
purchase mortgage-backed securities from banks, who for months have
not been able to find anyone to buy them. That's because, with so many
foreclosures, it's difficult to know how much value the securities
have.
Under the plan, the government will offer to buy the assets at a low
price. While the banks will lose money on the deal, they will at least
have liquidity with which to make loans, and hopefully become
profitable again. The government will eventually sell the assets,
hopefully at a higher price than it purchased them.
The banks holding the distressed assets can also choose to keep them,
and purchase government insurance to guarantee their value. That
provision was added because of House Republicans, who never liked the
idea of a government "bailout of wall street."
Executive pay
At the insistence of Democrats, the legislation will place
"reasonable" limits on executive pay, especially severance packages
for CEO fired after running their companies into the ground. It would
specifically affect executives at financial services firms, with some
retroactive terms.
The plan will give the government stock "warrants," meaning taxpayers
would make money if financial services firms in which it holds these
warrants become profitable again. Lawmakers said the financial sector
would be required to pay an additional tax if taxpayers lost money,
but details were not provided.
As part of the plan, the government would try to renegotiate terms for
homeowners struggling to pay their mortgages. Supporters of that
provision say that not only does it help consumers, but helps ensure
the plan's success, since there would be fewer bad mortgages within
the various securities.
Finally, lawmakers have decided the plan should be phased in. While a
total of $700 billion is being allocated for the plan, only $350
billion will be available at first. If the government needs more than
that, Congress would have to approve it.
Lawmakers have not yet gotten the entire deal down in writing, but
timed their announcement before the Asian financial markets open for a
new week of trading. The house will vote first on the measure,
possibly as early as Monday.
Reader comments
Sef of TX:
The government should be ashamed for passing this bill. you want to fix the economy, create a univeral healthcare system, end the war and get control of gas prices.
E of Frederick, MD: NO NO NO. The country is already bankrupt. We don\'t have the money! The banking system will automatically recover. Why is it that the whole country exists only on mortgage financing?
Maybe we should focus on the root of the problem. OUR throughly CORRUPT GOVERNMENT and our DIS-honorable representatives. They are NOT doing their job. Cut their pay, remove and confiscate their retirement, make them find their own health care. NO perks, no bribes (sorry..campaign donations). When they have to live like the rest of us, things might improve overnight! OH.. They can\'t vote themselves a raise from now on either.
Vote them ALL OUT..maybe someone will listen. Then throw the entire administration in jail for treason. AND KEEP THEM THERE!
Ivan Fail: Congratulations on this excellent "shot across their bow". I couldn't have done it better. In fact not nearly as well!! Get your suitcase packed and your cancelled checks and itemized business deduction documents in order. You may wind up at the local IRS office in the room next to me undergoing a "disciplinary audit". I've been down that road before after "challenging the status quo" in the federal criminal "justice" system in a Life magazine expose titled "The Gorilla Cowed His Keepers" in the June 25, 1971 issue. That case got "deadly serious" and this one just might as well before all "the dust settles" and the poor, low and middle income taxpayers have "had the final say". We are in fact dealing with some very nasty and very powerful people here in both politics and big business who are used to "having it all their way" from the moment they got their law degree and "chased their first ambulance" or got their first office on Wall Street.
Ann of Newport News, VA:
According to Wikipedia, there are 138 million tax payers in the US, so the proposed $700 billion bail out would have cost each of us $5,072. My husband and I have been promised a check for $1,200 to stimulate the economy. Think of how much more we could stimulate the economy with an extra $5,072!
Paulette of Glendale, CA:
I believe that the credit markets are "frozen," but I don't see how this bailout solves anything. At best, it would take MONTHS to implement this solution. And all banks can borrow from the FED (now via TAF), and the FED is pumping billions into the system. So what's going on? This cannot be a solution for a liquidity problem. Liquidity implies that the banks are solvent -- just short of cash. That's probably far from the truth. This is really the government providing a form of capital infusion. So why do we need to buy the junk assets? Why not just offer federal bailout loans???
Hugh of N. Wildwood, NJ: I also think the bailout for Wall Street should fail. It is their greed that created this mess. Morgages have been sold and resold to companies that raise the interest rates on working class people. Variable Interest rates should be outlawed. It isn,t used on any other type of loan. I have a 403B that is losing money on this mess. But I would rather take the hit than give more money to Wall Street.
Denise: I can't believe that citizens seems so outraged about this. We voted them in (politicians) and kept them there without any oversight. They're in there covering their own butts and socking away their money somewhere. As thru the years has any CEO,CFO suffered for raping employees? Has their money been taken away and given to the employees? NOOOOOOOOOOOOO and I hope the citizens don't think their outrage is going to mean anything. Ask the voters in Pgh PA. They voted against new stadiums and the day after the vote, new construction began on two of them and the third is on the way!!!!!!
Allan of Boulder CO: A Very Inconvenient Truth: Politics aside, we are in the worst international economic crisis of our times. This is the time line and history of how the Democrats destroyed the housing market and brought us to the brink. Barney Frank destroyed Fanny Mae, and Obama and his friends sucked the system dry. I am not a Republican. Watch this piece and weep for us! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASvqtD6g8...
Bill of Amarillo, TX: I have stood on the bridge at Concord, imagined the smell of leather, gun powder and remembered the smell of the men ready to enter combat, time for the same again.
Congress, the ones who refused to drill in Anwar, and off shore, took a five-week vacation while gasoline prices virtually bankrupted every household in America, the President wanted to move Social Security to Wall Street now those who did are broke. They are the hired hands that we hired to work for us and they act like royalty. No No No they do not know best; they are rotten meat with maggots, pure trash that deserve No Rescue No Bailout until the ones who are at the center of this failure are in chains and we are drilling everywhere there is oil. Built multimillion dollar mansions with our money it is time to have a change but not by the Dems or Republicans but by we the people of the United States of America.
Otto of Kempner, TX: No bailout!! Without consequences, people don't learn. For too long governmental actions have kept pumping up the economy, legislating increasing benefits without looking at the resources available and encouraging irresponsible behavior. If we go into a Depression, it will purge the system and people will have more motivation to act in a more moral and responsible fashion.
L. of Houston, TX: There is no way that I have any confidence in the current administration. There has been nothing but lies, corruption and greed since Bush was "elected" president. It makes the Sopranos look like a troop of boy scouts.
We do need some of the blue collar workers in charge. We also need to get back to purchasing from Americans in America.
Joseph of Dalzell SC:
Ian of Hunstville wrote: "I was joking with a co-worker of mine, and he said, as a joke, that if they didn\'t just want to hand me a check for the seven billion (because I could stimulate the H*LL out of the economy with that kind of money), then they should just spend ALL of it on solar panels and other truly renewable energy. It would create jobs, cure the energy crisis, fix the economy, and keep gas prices so cheap that members of OPEC would be looking for a new scam..."
*Laughs* That's a pretty good idea. I know that I too, could help the economy with that kind of money. It's just unfortunate that the greedy pigs within our government would rather loan that money out to flesh eating sharks, so they could bleed the economy even more into debt. I'm just wondering why these clowns haven't figured that out yet. If our nation had to thrive, and survive on loans, that (to me) is a problem. But aren't we, as peasants, taught that credit cards are bad, borrowing money is bad, and that we should save, more than spend? I wonder why the FEDS don't practice their own preaching. They want the poor to borrow money, primarily so they can profit from our struggles. It's all about "CONTROL" ladies and Gentlemen. Here's a great quote from the movie MATRIX, "Choice is an illusion created by those with power, and those without power...." We don\'t have to live our lives in debt, but choosing to do so would put Wall Street and other financ ial institutes [who rely on profits made from expensive, and high interest rate loans] OUT OF BUSINESS. Go figure!
What do/can we choose?
Juanita of VA: Wow, the root cause is an eyeopener! Who knew, trying to help those "minority constituents with bad credit" purchase a home could almost bring down Wall Street. They must feel pretty powerful right now!
Sept. 29
Anne of Kent, WA: What part of NO don't they understand?
Mark of STNY: AMEN!!
Linda of Willowbrook IL: I totally agree that something more must happen than just give them money. There is no safety net for the citizens that are expected to pay for their mistakes. And what\'s going to stop them from making more mistakes? What happens to their credit rating?
Michel of McHenry, IL: Count me in, not only to sue the bastards, but send them to jail, if we poor slobs broke the laws as they did, that's where we'd end up.
Connie of Crossville, TN: I wrote to my senator to no avail to vote no to this bailout. May God have mercy on us all even tho we don't deserve it for letting our Goverment run amuck and turning us into sheeple. BBBAAHHHH
XX of Bellevue, WA: why didn't they take that money and split between all adults in the USA age 18 and over? That would have been about 275,000 each. We could then have paid taxes on the money which would have at least given back the government some of the money people could have paid up their mortgages or paid them off. The rest would have gone back into our communities which would have created more jobs. But no give it to the greedy buggers instead.
Bales of Visalia CA: Where do I sign up?
Sandee of Kissimmee, FL: I want to be able to say whether they can spend my money or not. I think if they are spending my money I want one of the houses I am paying for.
Dave of Martinsburg, WV: Count me in.
Donald of Somerset, OH: I agree with Sandee of FL, I want one of the houses I am paying for. Count me in for sure.
Case of Easton, MD: Let's see....300 million population....say 200 million over age 18. Divide that into $700 billion, and it comes to $3,750 per person. You can adjust the population numbers a few tens of millions one way or the other. In any case, the results will be a far cry from $275K.
This is why the country is in a bad fiscal way right now. Igonorant voters. Guess with arithmetic acumen like this, we shouldn't be surprised why so many citizens bought houses, cars and vacations they couldn't afford, and maxed out their credit cards on non-essentials.
We voted the dogs into Washington and our state capitals....time and time again. Ultimately we have to blame ourselves.
Travlagnt2 of Hollywood, SC: I wrote my senator and congressman. No reply. Well they will hear my voice on election day. I say that any incumbant on the ballet be voted out. Lets see how all the new faces listen to what we have to say. It may put the fear of the people in there souls from the start.
Linda of Palm Coast, FL: This is either the dumbest Congress in history or the most complicit.
I suspect it's the latter.
Sherry of Miamisburg, OH: Check out A.C.O.R.N and Community Re-investment Act. These are part of how we got into this mess. Unless we rid outselves of these plans, we will revisit this mess again. I've said for a long time...they are paying people more money than there is money...sport figures, bankers, entertainers.
Sean of Bellport, NY: It is amazing the speed in which this measure was pass. Yet universal health care, a system the EVERYBODY would benefit from drags its feet and is seen as an evil. It shameful that we have to bail out these same companies that seemed all too giddy to see customers borrow more than they can afford. It is also obvious that the man in the White House presently is to bear much of the responsibility.
Debi of Vero Beach, FL: This whole process was hastily driven by fear mongering and lack of accountability by the entities that caused the problem. It is amazing how quickly they can decide something this huge so quickdly, when they can\'t decide things that would benefit the American people ie: Health Care, Education, job training and job creation. The bottom line in my opinion is accountability. We all should have it and we all should have to face the consequences of our mistakes. No one should be above the law and no one should have to serve a sentence for other's illegal actions which is primarily what this bail out amounts to.
M of Indiana: Where do I sign? We are small, very small business owners who has been struggling to stay afloat since the early part of the year. We're now looking at losing our home which we haven't missed a payment on in 10 years. Business dropped off and we have been unable to pay the payments recently. We have never bought frivolous things or paid ourselves much for that matter as most of the money we make has gone back in to keeping our company going. I don't see anyone bailing us out and we have been very responsible. While they bail out another careless company we will, likely, lose our home and our income and we aren't even able to collect unemployment that we have paid because we are self-employed. What a joke. I say give the money to the everyday working person and let them bail themselves out. I'm sure they would do a better job than the fat cats that started all this.
Seaya of Short Hills, NJ: Most reports show that over 90% of the American Public opposes the Bailout Plan. If we are a Government Of the People, By the People, For the People, then why does Congress ignore the People who are shouting their opposition to this Bailout Plan? And, why is the Congress taking direction from Sec. Paulson and Chairman Bernanke, the very culprits who swept us into this national economic disaster, along with SEC Chairman, Christopher Cox, who ignored regulations and securities laws. Why are these criminals still in high office?
HK of Flushing, NY: If the bail out is to ease the credit crunch, why can’t $700 billion be used by the government to set up its own bank to offer credit to small business’s and others who need it for life to go on? What is wrong with having a big government parts of which would compete with big banks and corporations who have crippled themselves with their greed and mistakes? Why not let the corporations/banks who have made themselves “too big to be allowed to fail” to actually fail? After all, will not proper oversight and supervision of dispensation $700 billion bailout result in growth of bureaucracy? And these “too big to be allowed to fail” monsters will always find ways to beat any supervision and regulation.
D. L. of Columbus, GA: Robbing Hoods who steal from the poor & give to the rich. If these politicians manage their personal finances the same way they manage taxpayer dollars, they would be bankrupt in a week. Spend all the damned money, that's why it's there. When it's gone, borrow more from a country who sends us tons of contaminated goods. Then spend more money that we don\'t have to clean up the mess. What I'd really like to see is a copy of that FDIC watch list with the 117 banks. I'll bet "Sock Under the Mattress" isn\'t on it. It is sad that the best qualified candidates--Joe Galloway & Lou Dobbs--are not running for President. Anybody want to start a write-in campaign?
Robert of Canon City, CO: The very culprits who swept us into this national economic disaster were the Democratic (Barney Franks & Shummer) who relaxed the lending policies so everyone could get a home even if they couldn't afford it. Yes, Republicans also had a hand it it. Therefore, let your voice be heard by voting these long time greedy and dishonest people out of office.
Rosemary of Albany NY: I totally agree with Seaya of short hills NJ and Sherry from Miamisburg OH.
Margaret of Chapel Hill NC: I'm with you. I can't see how this is even constitutional. Private companies being bailed out by force from the taxpayers? They made bad loans, so they should fail. What would happen is the private market would pick up those properties and the price would fall to a natural level. This way the price of the property is still being kept artifically high.
Troy of Lancaster PA: "It comes to $3,750 per person." For a typical 3-person family (husband, wife, and child) that comes to over $11,000 per home. $11,000! It makes that $600 stimulus check I received suddenly look worthless. "I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!"
I'm voting ANTI-INCUMBENT on my ballot. We did this a few years ago in the State of Pennsylvania, and fired nearly half the bums in the legislature. We need to do the same at the U.S. level.
Ann of Fort Walton Beach, FL: No bailout!!! Why can't anyone give a reasonable explanation of how America got to this point? No one from the government or the "news media" has defined the problem in a manner that gets to the root of it. And if the answer to the undefined problem is "freeing up credit" by injecting $700B into the system - Who is going to do the borrowing. If all the sub-prime borrowers are now defaulting on loans causing the value of mortgage backed securities to fall - where are all the "good borrowers" going to come from. This makes no sense!!!
Shannon of Columbia, MO: Have we reached the limits of our economic ability to proceed with the war on terror, while we bail out gluttonous companies, even as our school systems are struggling to get by, and our bridges and infrastructure collapse around us? When can America start spending this money at home where it is so desperately needed? Corporate greed and politicians have broken the spirit of America. People are starting to realize that they live to pay taxes, pay bills, and hope to have enough to eat at night. I have no 401K, so I have nothing to lose in this society and the failings of the banks. I say let all the greedy companies fail. It will be a clean slate after that. This is exactly what we need to wake the American people up from their slumber.
Rick of Greenwood, MO: I'm in let's SUE.
Better yet, lets all get together and not pay anymore taxes, until they fix it.
i know you may say two wrongs, don't make a right.
But it seems to work in our government. What are they going to do? lock everyone up.
our government needs to remember who pays their salary and healthcare. Why don't we say; I DON'T LIKE WHAT YOU ARE DOING WITH THE MONEY! SO I'M NOT GIVING YOU ANY MORE!!
Carlos of Miami: Finally, it appears the people of this great nation are awakening and realizing that the biggest enemy we have as a nation is the president and his croonies as well as the corrupt congress. Now in the coming election vote all of them out office, and let the replacements know that this governmnet is by the people and for the people. God bless America. Stand beside her and guide her from the hoodlums within.
Charlotte of DC: There is enough blame to go around for both parties. The Dems are to blame, of course - Clinton signed the abolition of Glass-Stegall, a law put in place after the Great Depression to make sure that banks and insurance companies avoid risky investments. Under Bush and a Republican Congress they followed up on that abolition and cut back regulation. And Greenspan made the cost of borrowing so cheap - remember the 1 to 2 percent interest rates? - that greedy buyers bought more house than they could afford. Both parties are to blame, and the Republicans are squarely in the middle of it for shipping jobs overseas and helping the rich hold on to what has turned out to be largely swindled money.
Joseph of Dalzell, SC:
I find it quite sickening to see how our Capitalist Country has fallen apart. I'm all for capitalism, but when corporate greed has its way, Capitalism falls apart, and this leads to poverty, job loss, and economic chaos!
The current financial crisis is a result of banks providing variable interest rate loans to people who could no longer afford to pay. So, like most who can no longer afford to pay for their homes, they simply go into default, and six months later, they're out. Quite frankly, I think our homes are over-priced anyways!
My home, purchased from Bank of America (which scares me I might add) was originally appraised at $132,000. Within a year, and NO UPGRADES, my home was re-appraised at $146,000, increasing my house payment from $926.00 to $1,036.00 in just over a year! Luckily, I can afford it now, but I will never get what they appraised it for! I tend to believe that they like raising the value of my simple three bed-room home (with only 1,526 sq-ft) to increase State property taxes. I'm also wondering about Bank of America. I've complained to Bank of America three times, and I\'ve asked them to send me a written report showing my cost figures, and to-date, I've received nothing!
I've been a Republican for over 20 years, but this time, I'm voting Democratic! Republicans abuse a free market society, leaving the working class worthless. Republicans claim they value those who work hard, but in truth, they don't; they only value those who profit from ripping people off! Their idea of capitalism is to provide huge tax breaks to large business to promote job creation. LIKE HELL THEY DO! The only thing they create is more wealth!
In closing, I say, “LET THEM HANG!
Jojo of Dubuque, IA: If the mortgages and rent in our country werent so expensive by greedy landlords,we wouldnt need to borrow and get in this mess. Rent and mortgages should be affordable all over. Why not nationalize and price cap rent to affordable prices for everyone?
Diana of Anderson, MO: Bush and his cronies made it nigh impossible for an American citizen in bad straights to declare bankruptcy. So, the average citizen cannot have the slate cleared.
Why should we let all the big businesses that have been consuming most all of our money for years now have the right to be bailed out? Hang them out to dry. They did us.
Dave: Why don't you back off on the jargon and rhetoric yourself; and just speak plain English if you want to be understood? "The half trillion dollar PAC money powered "right hook to the jaw" of taxpayers --, delivered by the political lackeys of the "self policed, free wheeling, free market" predator creditor loan sharks and high rolling hucksters -- is a terrible and painful validation of the indisputable truth in those proverbs."
Spell it out. Lead us through it; just like a District Attorney would. Make it easy to understand!
It seems like you're trying to win a Pulitzer with your reliance on jargon; just give us simple words.
I know the whole bail-out plan stinks to high heaven - just explain it in language we can understand!
David of Cebu, Philippines:
The necessary bailout, a result of crimes against humanity shall be beneficial not to the hard working citizens who maintained the hard work ethic, who paid their debts.
The legislators will ignore corrupt practices and forge ahead with more corruption, thinking they shall defy God's warnings that those who set a trap for the honest shall prosper? Shall those who seek to harm the righteous of God, not fall into their own trap? Shall God's words fail and shall the greedy, unrighteous,
flourish by more stealing, more oppression. We shall see who prevails, God or those who seek to harm the righteous.
As in the days of Sodom and Gomorrah, our leaders have conducted their paths. The Congress, state legislatures have permitted the health care industry to bill by income causing immense crimes against humanity. We shall watch to see if God is right or those who rob the righteous citizens. Shall the Sodomites of economy, escape God\'s wrath, shall they defy history, shall the economic sodomy cause God's warnings to fail?
Pamela of Granby, CO: So WaMu got bought out for 16 cents on the dollar. They hold my mortgage. I should be able to rewrite my mortgage for 16 cents on the dollar too. Where's the benefit to me for any of this??? They talk non stop about getting your money in excess of $100,000 into another bank. Right. How many people do you know that have that kind of money? I don\'t even know anyone who owns stock.. so they are definitely NOT speaking to the American public... they are talking to the fat cat politicians and the wall street gurus and the bankers. Enough already. Unless we are guaranteed there is something in it for us regular people, forget the whole bail out scheme. The people behind all this bail out don't have a clue as to how the real people live.
John: That crisis can trace its roots to Bill Clinton's signature on legislation making it easier for minority constituents with bad credit to obtain mortgages. In 1995, he had his Treasury Secretary, Robert Rubin, rewrite the lending rules for the Community Reinvestment Act, opening the flood gates of mortgage lending to unqualified borrowers.
This legislation, in effect, applied affirmative action to the lending industry, which is to say that the current crisis is NOT a "free market failure" but the result of socially engineered financial policy by the central government. The mortgage markets welcomed their new customers with open arms, fueling a real estate boom across the board.
Les of Bossier City, LA: Bush and his cronies made it nigh impossible for an American citizen in bad straights to declare bankruptcy. So, the average citizen cannot have the slate cleared. Why should we let all the big businesses that have been consuming most all of our money for years now have the right to be bailed out? Hang them out to dry. They did us. I totally agree that something more must happen than just give them money. There is no safety net for the citizens that are expected to pay for their mistakes. And what's going to stop them from making more mistakes? What happens to their credit rating?
Wanda of Southaven, MS: Why can't we use the $700 billion that McCain said was being sent to foreign countries that don't like us to straighten out this mess? When America is hurting, why do we put their interest above ours?
The Chief of Belton, TX: Ron Paul for President... 'nuff said. He knew about this stuff in 2001...didn't he?
Leroy of Thousand Oaks, CA: Here is what we do. Tell that idiot in the White House that if he pulls out of Iraq he can use that money (10 billion a month) to help these businesses.
KC of Burbank, CA: Why don't they reveal everything that is written into this bailout bill? What other perks are the wealthy getting for this mess? Why are the CEO's of these companies not held accountable for their actions?
We need a whole new and smaller government and they need to be accountable for their actions too!
Would not vote for either of these idiots that are running now. Start helping the working poor in this country.
John: Every Congressman and woman needs to be kicked out of office, they are a disgrace. They are too busy getting there friends what they want -- to heck with the ones who vote for them.
Joseph of Dalzell SC: I wanted to add something else. I know that lower income people were approved of loans, and that's a good thing. Bill Clinton had the everyday citizen in mind, so it's not his fault greed would destroy something that was intended to be a good thing. What many don't understand is that in order for these folks to get approved, they have to accept a variable interest rate loan. At the same time, some middle class members accepted the variable interest rate loan, in the hopes of a quick re-sell for profit. Now those who could afford their homes in the beginning, soon found themselves strapped with higher mortgage payments, sky-rocketing out of control. That, plus a failing economy and job loss, led to disaster.
The American home should be achievable for everyone. But greed often gets in the way of good morale business practices. American Capitalism has turned into a nation of greedy politics and shark-like stock investors looking to get the largest bite of our flesh, with nothing left over to spare.
Here's how I personally see the stock market. Sure its great if it benefits everyone, but if it primarily benefits those who want to earn a living without actually working (letting their money do the work), what do they expect? You call that working hard? That's not working hard! That's getting paid because someone else got screwed! So, to sum up what I'm saying, for someone to be very wealthy, means someone else gets left out to dry.
Americans need to get back to team work, but apparently the head managers want all the glory and wealth, while we simple blue-collar workers struggle to make ends-meet.
Ian of Hunstville, AL: I was joking with a co-worker of mine, and he said, as a joke, that if they didn't just want to hand me a check for the seven billion (because I could stimulate the H*LL out of the economy with that kind of money), then they should just spend ALL of it on solar panels and other truly renewable energy. It would create jobs, cure the energy crisis, fix the economy, and keep gas prices so cheap that members of OPEC would be looking for a new scam.
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December 4 2008
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